Major / Minor

My and my pal, a pianist, had a maissive argument!! He says the major and minor scales cannt be the same scale pattern on guitar!! I said they are! they just start at different points!! (diff roots)

So, C Major (ionian)

------------10------12-----13--
------------10------12-----13--
-------9----10------12---------
-------9----10------12---------
---8--------10------12---------
---8--------10------12---------

Thats a common form of the scale, one i use too much.
The roots being 6th string 8th fret and 4th tring 10th fret to name a couple.

I told him that the minor scale is exactly the same and that you transpose it down 7 or up 5(sumin like that) to get C minor. Or keep it there to get A minor.

He says thats bull and crazy, and that they are not the same pattern. Ie that I dont know the minor scale!!

Hes like grade 6 pino guy!! is he talking rubbish? is this the harmonic minor scale?>!?!?

Later

I'm sure you & your pal misunderstood each other.

Yes, C maj scale has the same notes A min (aeolian mode) has, but the only difference is the root, which will give you different paterns if you changed the root on the same string.

It's very easy to prove this on a piano or a key board, the A minor scale has no black keys, just the white keys, exaclty like the C maj.

A min : A B C D E F G (A)
C maj : C D E F G A B (C)

All of the above notes are white keys on the piano (key board) since there ain't any flats or sharps.

I dont think your piano buddy is as up to speed on theory as you are. Do what SLY said and prove him wrong by using the piano against him, and if he still doesn't get it, all well. He doesn't play guitar anyway, so how would he know?

I AM THE PIANO GUY. I have been doing piano for 10 years. I argued that the KEY SIGNATURES are the SAME but the minor SCALES- Harmonic AND Melodic have ACCIDENTALS in them which deviate from the key signature. So by simply moving them up the notes ARE the same but you are NOT playing a harmonic minor or melodic minor scale. I thought you "experienced" guitar players would know that or didnt u do theory exams!

PS I do play the guitar too so you are again mistaken!



[Edited by irg_lies on 11-18-2002 at 07:02 AM]

Well, we all know the melodic and harmonic minor scales have nothing to do with the Major scale, and they have modes as well.
As I said in my previous post , I was sure that it was a misunderstanding cuz scales & theory stuff are hell a lot easier to learn and memorize on Piano than any other instrument.

Like I said previously they do have something to do with it as they have the same key signature. Also theory is the same to learn on any instrument as it is music theory not piano theory. Scales hmmm are possibly easier as there are lots more combinations on guitar but playing is just as hard as you need to use two hands working completely independently.


[Edited by irg_lies on 11-18-2002 at 03:14 PM]

You must know how it works for barre chordes right? Well its the same for scales. Anything than doesn't contain an open string on a guitar can be transposed up to the next note into a different key. That is a rule on the guitar.
According to what I think (keyword THINK) you are saying, moving an A minor melodic scale up one fret means it cant be a melodic minor any more. That is incorrect. It would just become an A# melodic Minor.
If I misunderstood you, please tell me.

I am a Music Theory Major, I think I know what the problem is.
The Pianoist dewd is talking about moving the notes that make
up the harmonic and Melodic scale up so that they become the
Natural Minor scale again. To the guitarist, I don't think he
means move the entire scale up one fret, just the notes. Here's
what I think he means.

C Melodic Minor Scale

e:--------------------------
b:--------------------------
g:--------------4-5---------
d:--------3-5-7-------------
a:--3-5-6-------------------
e:--------------------------

The Mistake of the Pianist is that you move the notes down a step
to make them Minor again. See when you move the 7 on the D string
and the 4 on the G string down one fret it becomes the minor scale.

C Natural Minor

e:--------------------------
b:--------------------------
g:--------------3-5---------
d:--------3-5-6-------------
a:--3-5-6-------------------
e:--------------------------

It's the same on the Piano.

Ahh, I see. He could have said it better, like the part where you only move the one or two notes.

Yeah Josh, I am still assuming that is what he meant. In all of my studies in Music Theory, I have never heard anything like that. Altering any scale, changes the original scale into another scale. Any one with common sense knows that. Transposing is the same for guitar to/or back to Piano. I don't need to explain, everyone here knows that too. In the end, I made the only logical answer to what made sense in what he was saying. People should be alot clearer when they're trying to explain something, instead of just arguing that they're right and your wrong.

Cool.