Key of a song

Right, am told Sweet Child o mine is in the key of D, it contains the chords D C G. So how from those tchords do you get D? what is the key of a song with the chords, say G A B for instance? And i heard the knocking on heavens door is in G, but it contains the same chords as sweet child which is in D.
Finally wot about songs with 30 chords!! rocket queen by GnR for example!!

Later Torby

If they are the right chords for Sweet child o mine then it is in the key of G, not D.
Most songs do not stay in one key, it is common for pop/rock songs to switch key w/every new section.
Ex: verse key1, chorus key2, bridge key3.
The chords G A B are not in the same key.
G A Bminor is in the key of D.

I remember learning the solo of this song, and it was using the harmonic minor scale, and I remember how good the solo sounded on the chord progression... Isn't it based on it chris? (I'm too tired and lazy to figure or look up the chord scale for harmonic minor, expecially since I remember there's several options for some of them)

G A Bminor.. is in the key of D huh... So if you have a song in which the chords are played like this,

G A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Bminor

Thats in the key of D?!?!?!?!?

Surely A?

How do you work it out??

Question: Does that realy matter? *L*

I mean if u know the chords and how they are written/played, then you´ll have no problem when u work together with professional musicians, for if u tell them the chord progressions, the´ll know what to do ;)

Analyzing songs and bringing them down to plain theory is something students do at a university to fight boredom and to satisfy their teachers.. the results are somewhat like this:

"The first movement of this three-movement for guitar - a 'Preludio' of resrained expressiveness - is notated in what seems to be an Alla bréve metre in order to help the player´s rythmic orientation; however, it cannot be fitted into any metrical scheme, and must, moreover, be treated with a great deal of agogical freedom. Most of the movement is monophonic, with frequent contrasts provided by broken or arpeggiated chorde whose structure is complex and full of tension..." (as taken from Heinz Kratochwil´s "Trpitychon")

*L* so.. i´d say: do whatever you please, get a bit of theoretical knowledge (chords, scales, etc..) and then forget it again and use yer ear and heart to do the rest!

:D

-=[Azrael]=-

I want to know the key of thwe song so i know what scale to use for soloing

Basically chords are scales and vice versa.

IMHO the best way to learn it is to jam along with some songs - or just put on a random chord progression, record it, let it play in circles and just improvise over it. It might be difficult in the beginning, but with time you will develop your own feel for it and you´ll be able to improvise over chord progressions whithout knowing the chords.

For the beginning it might be usefull to experiment on the guitar a bit and get to know the fretboard better.

as you might know, every chord can be played i several ways:

Letz take C major for example:

e--
b--
g-0 <-- G(fifth)
d-2 <-- E(major third)
a-3 <-- C(root)
E--

then u can thake the root and play it one octave higher (first inversion - sixth-chord):

e--
b-1
g-0
d-2
a--
E--


and here´s the 2nd inversion where u put the third one octave higher (fourth/sixth chord):

e-0
b-1
g-0
d--
a--
E--

all those are the same chord: C major - but they all sound a bit different. you can play this along the whole fretboard - go and experiment a bit - look where on the fretboard you can find E, Em, E7, Em7, etc... and get familliar with it. then you´ll at the same time have all the notes you can play over these chords for CHORDS ARE SCALES AND VICE VERSA :)
You can also play notes that are NOT in the cords themselves, but you´d better not rest on them - they are to be played in between (runns, etc)

-=[Azrael]=-

[Edited by Azrael on 03-14-2002 at 07:50 AM]

dude, I think Rocket queen is in B because all the power chords played are in the B major scale (B5, Db5, E5, Gb5, Ab5, Bb5) and they are played in different ways. B5 for example is played:

e-x-
b-x-
g-x-
d-9-
a-9-
e-7-

and

e-x-
b-x-
g-4-
d-4-
a-2-
e-x-

Alot of Pro guitarists plus Artists don't think of scales when thier playing.
They connect the dots=root notes by knowing alot of
chords plus useing chord shapes but not thinking scales.
Your root notes are your keys.
You should learn also just the chords that go with
each(Key)like accidentals.ect

Mark

[Edited by skee1 on 03-21-2002 at 02:50 PM]

Finally someone mentioned it!!! The key is in many cases the scale the chords fit into!!! THANKS!!!!

That's a little oversimplificated, some chords fit in several scales, and chords inversions can be considered as other chords with notes added, which broadens the possibilities. If you consider modes, then it's totally crazy.
Luckily most music we hear is written in major or minor, so what you say is right in 90% of the cases

hmm... I'm gonna agree with lalimacefollie here... i'm working on something at the mo which uses Bminor, Amaj, Dmaj, which fits into G, D and A major scales... So that's three keys, and if you wanna cout the modes that's x7, which is 21 (i know you can multiply, i just thought i'd save you the effort lol)...
What i'm doing is repeating this chord progression over and over, simply but changing the key of the lead... cos i hate songs where the key change is moving the whole thing up/ down by the required steps...
Basically in yer major scale you got your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th....
The chord with the root note that's a 1st, 4th, 5th a major...
chords with 2nd, 3rd, 6th, are minor...
and a chord with 7ths as a root are diminished...
eg for c major (CDEFGABC)
major chords in this key are Cmaj, f maj, gmaj
minor chords in this key are Dminor, Eminor, Aminor,
Augmented is the B diminished chord...

now, if i was to used every one of those chords, then that chord progression would be exlucive to that key... but most songs dont do antying like that... and the less chords you use the more keys it will fall into... oh, and remember that those chords fall into 6 other modes...
Music theory is fantastic, and is extremly helpful in composition... and can give some cool tricks wich i'm not sure can be said for playing by ear... dont get me wrong, i used to play just be ear... but now i'm learning music theory my compisitions have improved.....
What key would a song that uses 3 different scales be? (the time used for each is about the same...)
but you are right in MOST cases...

[Edited by educatedfilm on 03-18-2002 at 11:22 AM]

Ed - the chord built off the 7th scale degree (B) would be diminished, not augmented.

glad you were there to correct me... you absoloutly right...
Also the chords I'm using aren't Amaj and D maj and B minor... They're odd... they're like Asus4,D maj, and think it's B minor (barr chord and plays all six strings)... but it does fit into the 3 scales...(i know this because i drew out the notes on a sketch of the fingerboard.. and they fit :))
but they're too similar, cos there's only 1 sharp difference between G and D, D and A... So the key change will habe to be between G and A (2 sharps difference)...
Thank chris...

I should have mentioned when i answered Axl
That also you could be playing in the key=C
but the first chord you play in the song might be related to the key of C like G7 Am ect.
That why its good to learn the circle of 5ths plus
learn scales.
Also too much theory Jargon ect can confuse a person just learning basic theory thats why i try to stay in more
laymans terms when trying to explain Basic theory,
plus you can tell by the question they ask plus how its
worded that they didn't come right out of (GIT)
If somebody is asking to learn how (Keys) relate in a
song they sure don't want to hear all that jargon!
Its like some one trying to teach a student guitar but speaking in spanish and the student only knows English.

Mark
Triad=Chord) But sir i just wanted to know how to make a C chord .(What the hell is a Triad Sir)
(Music theory is great if the student knows what a
(Harmonic minor scale means in plain english)

[Edited by skee1 on 03-27-2002 at 12:32 PM]

if i was writin a song with a G D A Bm in it i'd
be thinkin key o D. cant be A cuz G aint in A and
cant be G cuz A is minor in G. triad is the 1,3,5
notes of any scale. ya play em together as a chord.
in C thats CEG to minor it ya flat the 3rd , C Eb G.
a ( very breakable but still usable) rule when lookin
is if ya see two major chords a step apart( thats
two frets difference) the higher one is the 5th to
the tonic. (if i see a D and a C the D is 5th to G so
its in the key o G. but there are no rules which
are not made to be broken so if ya can find a way to
make somethin sound good thats against the rules you will
be loved by some and hated by some. im a rulebreaker
myself :)

Originally posted by river
if i was writin a song with a G D A Bm in it i'd
be thinkin key o D. cant be A cuz G aint in A and
cant be G cuz A is minor in G. triad is the 1,3,5
notes of any scale. ya play em together as a chord.
in C thats CEG to minor it ya flat the 3rd , C Eb G.
a ( very breakable but still usable) rule when lookin
is if ya see two major chords a step apart( thats
two frets difference) the higher one is the 5th to
the tonic. (if i see a D and a C the D is 5th to G so
its in the key o G. but there are no rules which
are not made to be broken so if ya can find a way to
make somethin sound good thats against the rules you will
be loved by some and hated by some. im a rulebreaker
myself :)

Note: useing G D A Bm the key could be Bminor.
The Bm has a D note in the chord.
Plus these chords can be used in the keys of A and G
as Accidentals chords.

Mark

if i was gonna try to work it in Bm i would have to consider the G note as both flat and sharp but not natural? and with a flat 7 too? i suppose ya
could pass through the flat 5 5 #5 6 flat7 to keep yer
G in the equation? how bout ....
G.................D..........A
--------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
-------------------------------------4-6-4-
--------------------------4~5---6~7------4--9----
--5--7~5--9~5---5----9-7-5----5---5------4--9
7--7----7-----7---7----------------------5--7-----
hey thanks.that was fun. but i was just sayin
that yeah, incidentals are fun but in order to keep from
havin to change the designation of notes from # to
natural to flat ya often can use the step apart thing
i mentioned. wut kindo licks would you use in a
G to D to A in the key o Bm ?


[Edited by river on 03-28-2002 at 02:56 PM]

The licks i could use in that progression could
run into hundreds if i'm just adlibing .
You could cover the whole finger-board with that progression using licks.

Mark

G, D, A, Bm

The key of this progression is D Major, shown by the G and A chords (IV and V are the only two major chords next to each other in the major scale). BUT, the central chord is G, so I'd think G Lydian (the notes of D Major, but focusing on G).

Another way to see the key is to look at the chords.
G = G, B, D
D = D, F#, A
A = A, C#, E
Bm = B, D, F#

Putting all of these notes together, you get G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#, or G Lydian.